[Ken Gracey]

I still think, the biggest equation is any business, is HOW MUCH WILL THE CUSTOMER pay, crank it up to that price and then wind it back a few bucks, been the same formula used since man walked the earth.

[Tezzainoz]

Agreed

But you will note that I started off with the fact that I can find PC computers of well know names at prices with in $50 of the US converted price

The example I gave was to compare freight costs of goods imported
100 Kls of CDs takes up more room than 100 kls of laptops so should be more expensive to ship

reminds me of the old joke, which is heavier

100 kls of lead or 100 kls of feathers

The only real comparison that makes sense is

I buy a Mac book in the USA and ship it to my home in Australia, it still has full warranty
Buy the same Mac book in Australia and compare the price after adding on another 10% for GST

When I purchased the Mac book in the USA I paid the retail price so should be no comments of needing to pay the importer as he makes a profit at this end as Apple does not pay US retail so number 1 markup

Apple freight is in bulk so they pay half what I pay 2nd Markup

Any idiot can see the numbers do not add up the same

Just an opinion

[Alex Kidman]

Agreed

But you will note that I started off with the fact that I can find PC computers of well know names at prices with in $50 of the US converted price

The example I gave was to compare freight costs of goods imported
100 Kls of CDs takes up more room than 100 kls of laptops so should be more expensive to ship

reminds me of the old joke, which is heavier

100 kls of lead or 100 kls of feathers

The only real comparison that makes sense is

I buy a Mac book in the USA and ship it to my home in Australia, it still has full warranty
Buy the same Mac book in Australia and compare the price after adding on another 10% for GST

When I purchased the Mac book in the USA I paid the retail price so should be no comments of needing to pay the importer as he makes a profit at this end as Apple does not pay US retail so numbr 1 markup

Apple freight is in bulk so they pay half what I pay 2nd Markup

Any idiot can see the numbers do not add up the same

Just an opinion

But it's not just shipping costs to consider -- the comparison with DVDs is still faulty. And shipping is amazingly variable, depending just as much on how much of a deal a given company can cut (or in some cases, even organise years in advance) -- some companies use a combination of size and weight, some cartons can be placed with other, more profitable goods at a cheaper rate, and so on and so forth.

But I won't continue to argue that point -- we may have to agree to disagree.

Apple's actually pretty generous with its warranty support for out-of-country items -- plenyt of IT companies don't do this, and in effect your purchase is subisidised by Apple US's sales figures. The Air does still feel overpriced, and the best thing to do about it (as always) is to vote with your wallet.

Actually, there's a decent thought -- would the price difference be substantially wiped out at the border if the nice people at customs didn't believe you when you said it was an AU model? (not that I'm planning this, in case any nice customs people are listening, just that I don't know the numbers involved)

[MJCP]

Actually, there's a decent thought -- would the price difference be substantially wiped out at the border if the nice people at customs didn't believe you when you said it was an AU model? (not that I'm planning this, in case any nice customs people are listening, just that I don't know the numbers involved)

Well, now you know what your assignment on return from overseas is, Alex ...

[Alex Kidman]

Sure thing boss. Just as soon as you wire the money through to buy the thing in the first place...

[Ian Yates]

But it's not just shipping costs to consider -- the comparison with DVDs is still faulty. And shipping is amazingly variable, depending just as much on how much of a deal a given company can cut (or in some cases, even organise years in advance) -- some companies use a combination of size and weight, some cartons can be placed with other, more profitable goods at a cheaper rate, and so on and so forth.

C'mon Alex!
Apple's been ripping off Aussie buyers forever. Back when I was dealer principal at the campus computer shop, we did a roaring trade in Oz power packs for Apple notebooks, bought by academics while visiting the USA.
They could buy a Macbook and a plane ride for less than our best price just for the notebook.
At every dealer meeting we all used to shout at Apple and their only consistent lame defence was that they didn't want to get caught by exchange rate variations. As if they didn't play the Forex markets!
The earlier post "gouge what they'll pay" is the correct answer.
And, if you do bring one through customs and get "caught" you're only liable for the 10% GST, there's no duty now, so you will still be in front unless you can find a price here that's only 10% below the US prices.
Good luck.

[Ian Yates]

But it's not just shipping costs to consider -- the comparison with DVDs is still faulty. And shipping is amazingly variable, depending just as much on how much of a deal a given company can cut (or in some cases, even organise years in advance) -- some companies use a combination of size and weight, some cartons can be placed with other, more profitable goods at a cheaper rate, and so on and so forth.

They bring in 40' foot containers, not individual computers. And those things cost the same price no matter what you stuff them with, unless you air freight. And since the stuff is made in Asia its quicker to ship via sea than air freight from Cupertino. We should actually be getting a CHEAPER price.

[Alex Kidman]

Oh, believe me -- I'm not saying Apple isn't overcharging. I just think it's dodgy to compare notebook to DVD-R prices is all.

Very dodgy.

My sleep-deprived brain had forgotten about the GST -- I blame the insane weather in Canada for freezing my synapses.

[Ken Gracey]

I am guessing you are working on the space theory, Alex.

You can fit 1000 DVDs in a shipping container at lets pretend $1000.00, to transport , which is $1.00 per piece shipping versus, say 50 imacs at the same shipment cost, would be $20.00 per piece, would i be on the right track here with your train of thought.

Does that make sense

[Alex Kidman]

Ever get that feeling you're falling into a black hole of discussing the wrong thing (or is it just me?)

I'd certainly be surprised if the shipping costs per unit were the same for DVD-Rs as laptops. As would be the frequency with which they're purchased (which would affect shelf space needs, rent, turnover, even how many times you have to pay the shelf stacking monkey to sling more out of there). Or the packaging costs. Or even the market pressure to keep prices low -- which probably *does* play into the "charge the suckers what they'll pay" argument, which I agree is almost certainly the case with the Air (or with buying any other number of things, but I'm not going to muddy the waters further there).

The point I was originally trying to make was that I don't think it's reasonable to compare costings of DVD-Rs to costings of laptops (and there still hasn't been a quoted price of competing laptops, just a diveersion into DVD-R-land).

[Ken Gracey]

Its ok Alex, we just want to confuse your sleep deprived thought process at 2.27 am, is my guess.

[Chuck]

Ever get that feeling you're falling into a black hole of discussing the wrong thing (or is it just me?)

I'd certainly be surprised if the shipping costs per unit were the same for DVD-Rs as laptops. As would be the frequency with which they're purchased (which would affect shelf space needs, rent, turnover, even how many times you have to pay the shelf stacking monkey to sling more out of there). Or the packaging costs. Or even the market pressure to keep prices low -- which probably *does* play into the "charge the suckers what they'll pay" argument, which I agree is almost certainly the case with the Air (or with buying any other number of things, but I'm not going to muddy the waters further there).

The point I was originally trying to make was that I don't think it's reasonable to compare costings of DVD-Rs to costings of laptops (and there still hasn't been a quoted price of competing laptops, just a diveersion into DVD-R-land).

I was going to wait for the Apple TV to get an Australian price drop (probably when the rentals are available here), but I got impatient, so I'm now ordering one from the US, including Applecare (covers it globally) for a lot less than buying the standard box here without any Applecare. If Apple Australia knew how simple this was, I wonder if they'd continue to rip us off like this.

[Ken Gracey]

Chuck, may i ask what will probably be a stupid question, but is the one from the US, PAL or only NTSC compliant.

[MJCP]

Chuck, may i ask what will probably be a stupid question, but is the one from the US, PAL or only NTSC compliant.

Not a stupid question, TLCAUS. Apple TV can output 480-, 576- and 720-line resolutions, so the whole NTSC/PAL thing is a lot less relevant than it used to be. Once we're all using high-definition (minimum 720p) content, it won't even be a question. High-definition is high-definition, wherever you are.

[Alex Kidman]

While the new Apple TV is an improvement, I'd be more concerned when importing/doding regional restrictions about being blocked from rental content in the future. Given the more extensive DRM that would have to be involved in self destructing files, I suspect it'd be relatively trivial for Apple (or the movie studios, or whichever third party might be doing the encoding) to run an IP check on the DRM verification. Plenty of online video sites already do -- try accessing the BBC's online content, or some US TV show sites for an good example.

I suppose IP blocking does open up potential cans of worms for international travelers, but Apple's already shown it's willing to close loopholes on international iTunes store users with the whole Paypal issue. How would you feel if your updated, shiny Apple TV suddenly stopped renting (or even worse, allowed you to rent but not view?)

[Ken Gracey]

Alex, are you dropping a small word of caution in here, to any potential importers on non localized versions of appletv's

[Alex Kidman]

I guess I am. I'm not privy to any special information -- I don't even know where Apple gets its stock standard "Apple does not comment on unannounced products" labels printed -- but given how rigidly the movie studio types tend to want to hold onto their power and control -- and the fact that we don't even have a movie/tv store here yet, let alone a rental one -- I'd be cautious about investing heavily in Apple TV on the back of the movie rental store. Given how DRM has to communicate back to base, it'd be a pretty easy number to implement if Apple (or the movie studios) were so inclined -- and the movie types haven't been backwards in coming forward to protect their interests in the past.

It's not actually clear from his post if Chuck wanted one regardless of the movie rental announcement -- and if so, the lower price plus Applecare makes a whole lot of sense at a consumer level -- but it was the thought that raced through my head while reading the last couple of responses.

[Ken Gracey]

Makes two of us, thats why i asked if it was a warning to think twice, plus I am also unsure with our current download limits and speed , whether it would even be viable to down load movies.

Unless apple can persuade the big telcos to remove download limits, or not count movie rentals as downloads ? Wishful thinking i am guessing.

[Alex Kidman]

At least one Australian ISP that I know of doesn't count iTunes song downloads. I don't know if that's based on detecting protected AAC files, or just "if it's from iTunes, don't count it" though, so I suppose it is possible. And certainly, if you're a BigPond subscriber, they don't count the movies you download against your cap -- which is good, because they certainly count everything else they can. As such when/if the movie/tv/rentals store opens up (possibly just after photo album printing), I'd be surprised if a at least a few ISPs didn't offer a specific exclusion service. The movies might be big, but they're a fixed download size, whereas BitTorrent stuff can run very large if left seeding for an extensive time period -- so it's better business for the ISPs.

I chortled when Steve Jobs announced that on a "modern" broadband you'd be able to watch movies immediately. Maybe if you lived in the local exchange here in Australia, but that might do some funky things to your genes....