[gracer]

Afternoon all,

Just a super quick forum post today as we are under the pump like nobody's business!

I got a call from a reader today asking me if I had any resources on hand to suggest a good database management system for Macs, with a view of using it for business/enterprise needs.

Now as much as I like to think I know everything, I must admit I do not – particularly in this field of expertise. It's also not something I want to just Google and then regurgitate.

HENCE, dear forum faithfuls, I am asking for your help.This reader would like any info you may have, or even a contact you may know, that can enlighten on the topic of database intel. He did say that he was interested in looking at options other than Filemaker...

Is this an area as complicated as it sounds?

G

[BrianB]

I'm sure Ken can enlighten you on this topic.

[arcanedevice]

Any reason they want other than FileMaker? And what will the purpose of the database be? It certainly could become difficult without knowing the use...

[Ken Gracey]

Grace it depends if he wants a relational database, or just flat file database?

If he wants a flat file database, he can simply use bento, if he wants something relational (other than FileMaker pro) he could use FileMaker advanced, or if he really wants to go really industrial heavy duty, he should look at 4th dimension (4D).

Personally, I think they are not interested in FileMaker pro, my guess would be that haven't downloaded the trial, and the business database samples, to see how truly powerful this program is.

[arcanedevice]

I'm guessing they just don't want anything from FileMaker, but we still need to know what the are wanting it for - do they want a CRM or ERP or something else because that might open the options wider...

[Dave Bullard]

Ken Gracey, on 22 November 2011 - 05:22 PM, said:

Grace it depends if he wants a relational database, or just flat file database?

If he wants a flat file database, he can simply use bento, if he wants something relational (other than FileMaker pro) he could use FileMaker advanced, or if he really wants to go really industrial heavy duty, he should look at 4th dimension (4D).

Personally, I think they are not interested in FileMaker pro, my guess would be that haven't downloaded the trial, and the business database samples, to see how truly powerful this program is.

Hey Ken, I'm not big on databases, but isn't Bento also relational?

Cheers
Dave

[Ken Gracey]

Dave , bento is a Flat file data base with limited relational data base facilities.

If that makes sense.

[Dave Bullard]

It does. (For once!)

[gracer]

I don't know specifics beyond what we spoke about (which I've relayed here), I've sent him a link to this page so hopefully he can jump on and elaborate further. My impression was that he wanted info on anything BUT Filemaker, but of course, he's the best one to confirm that. Hopefully we'll hear from him soon!

In the meantime, thanks so much for your help - he'll surely appreciate it!

G

[Ken Gracey]

The problem I usually find is people try FileMaker, and it's a lot tougher learning curve than they imagine, and the just get frustrated, and just throw there hands in the air, and say this is not for me.

[Dave Bullard]

Ken, do you customise your own databases, or get a consultant in?

d.

[Ken Gracey]

I build my own Dave, it does invoicing, calculations, and naturally stores customer details, and products stocked, by quantity and price.

[Dave Bullard]

That's pretty cool. I've only ever used databases built by other people. Is it difficult?

Cheers
d.

[Ken Gracey]

Not once you write down on a piece of paper what you want the database to do, and then just hack about until It comes to shape, it's probably no harder than building a decent spreadsheet.

[arcanedevice]

I would have to agree - as with anything if you plan it out first it is always much easier.
As someone who works with FileMaker, Access and MS SQL, I actually really like FileMaker for its user friendliness. I must admit though the support documentation can be lacking at times...

[adryan]

G’day! I’m the one who initiated this enquiry about databases for Mac. Thanks to Grace for commencing this thread and to those who have already started to address the issue.
I’m looking for a serious relational database application for small business and other interests, preferably less than $250, but I might be prepared to go higher if it were really good. It needs to be something with a decent life expectancy, with the developer keeping up with successive iterations of the Mac OS (not the iOS).
I used FileMaker Pro for many years. It was an application I really enjoyed using, and I considered myself fairly proficient in it. However, I ran into what I considered to be three fatal problems. The first was the maintenance cost: I did not feel I was getting value for money with the prices they were charging for upgrades. Next was the policy they introduced of making you use the Net to activate and deactivate copies of the program when you moved between your laptop and your desk machines. Finally, an obscure bug emerged that FM could not resolve; viz, the insertion point in a field did not coincide with the position of the cursor (they were displaced from each other by about two characters). This last persisted through different versions of FMPro and the Mac OS, but did not appear in other applications. It made it impossible to do any serious work in the program. (Lest you think a corrupted font may have been the culprit, I think I tried just about everything at the time to rid myself of the problem.) So, with a great deal of reluctance and not a little bitterness, I abandoned FMPro. I still have FMPro databases I have been unable to access since.
For a time I used NeoOffice. In particular, I used its spreadsheet component, Calc, extensively for a very complex work-related project. Unfortunately it crashed at a critical time. I made several attempts to use its database component, Base, but it has a very steep learning curve. It feels clunky and is laborious in use.
At present I use Numbers for the complex project I mentioned. It’s pretty good. (BTW I bought Microsoft Office for Mac just so I could use Excel for workplace compatibility, but I returned it the next day when I found the Fit Row Height to Content “feature” didn’t work. Are any of these people serious? Now I just export from Numbers and don’t worry about formula preservation: at least they get the data.) It wouldn’t take much for Apple to add database capability to Numbers.
I’ve looked at MySQL a bit, but I don’t really understand what it’s about or even how you’d get started with it. In any case, I’m not really interested in querying the data as such. The FMPro way of doing things really suited me.
So there you have it. Is FileMaker Pro really the only database application for Mac? There should be a dozen or so really good programs available. I’ve long considered this situation the Achilles heel of the Mac, particularly when it comes to business use.
Any suggestions?

[Ken Gracey]

Welcome to the forums adryan, I think you may have just hot the nail on the head with your second line, $250 for a data base, won't get you very much of anything, if you want a true heavy duty data base, before programming, you are looking at $1000.00s , 4D would be the best example of that, and i paid over $1800 for my copy back in 1989.

Maybe for what you need, you could down load a trial of Bento, and give that a go, to see if that will offer you enough flexibility, without the on going expense and hassle of having to have somebody program it for you ?

[arcanedevice]

MySQL is simply the database, so you will need to develop or purchase an interface over the top to access the data within.
As Ken said, for $250 you will be hard pressed to find a solution on Mac or PC that will match with what FileMaker offers or won't give you bigger headaches...

[adryan]

Thanks for replies. It’s pretty much as I suspected: Mac users have a very limited choice of serious database software.
I think Bento is too lightweight, and it seems to entail the same crazy Internet ping-pong nonsense that FileMaker Pro does. Panorama would fit into the desired price range, but it has the same problem. Their loss: they don’t get my money.
I’m no stranger to computers and programming, but I’ve yet to see a Web site that gives one any idea of how to put together an SQL-ish database without resorting to Unix, so that the end product is intuitive enough for (say) the average business person to use. This could form the basis for a Macworld article.
In the end, I think I might grit my teeth, put on the crampons and once again attempt to scale the lofty heights of Base’s learning curve in NeoOffice.