[MacDavo]

New thread from Forum Commandments->Uploading Files

I've often tried the prefixing a word with the plus sign and have found, contrary to what is stated in the advanced usage help, it find posts with one or more of the words.
Conclusion: The search function is nearly useless.

Could you give a real world example of a search phrase you've tried and received useless results from?

To put all this into perspective, IP Board uses PHP and MySQL. For searches it's highly likely standard SQL is being used against text fields. Put another way, that means the search is extremely limited. Standard SQL full text searches are either like fishing for trout with dynamite, or very precise, but mind numbingly slow.

If there's a bug in the SQL query, '+term word phrase' could return all topics with a single instance of term, word or phrase in them. If the search is fine, all the topics returned would definitely have term in them, and may or may not have word and/or phrase in them.

I have to develop MySQL text searches all the time for various applications. If a few of the people who've had headaches searching submit a few real world search terms, I can probably work out where the problems lie and suggest solutions. If not solutions, then fairly precise reporting why they're probably failing, which could be useful to the developers.

[mickdevlin]

Could you give a real world example of a search phrase you've tried and received useless results from?

I'll provide an example soon; just don't expect it to be today or tomorrow as it depends how often I need to search for something. I suspect, as you have mentioned, that it may have something to do with the code being used to generate the query.

[gazza]

Ah, I'm glad someone else has had problems with the search feature, thanks for reporting that Mick.

Davo I will also report back here with a search that doesn't work - I can't remember one I've done in the past as I gave up on searches a while ago. Like Mick, I will make it a legit one for the purpose at hand, WHEN it comes up.

gazza

EDIT: 9:53AM - Ah, I've just remembered the last one I did a few weeks back. In a previous thread a discussion surrounded the possibility of "remounting" a USB drive after it had been "ejected" and the user realised they wanted to access it again. Of course you can remove the drive and reinsert, but that seems an unnecessary thing to do. However there was no solution forthcoming from the AMW members. I posted that I would try other Mac Forums around the web and report back my findings. (unfortunately they were in the negative, but I wanted to come good with my promise and at least report back.) So I attempted to find the relevant thread - like discussions elsewhere at the moment, this point must have been "off-topic" to the thread title so I couldn't find it by doing a visual search of the thread topics. So I tried a search, firstly multi-word, then single word and either got screwy results or none at all. eg I tried: +USB+drive, +remount+USB, +mount+USB, to no avail, even +USB by itself. To get NO results for the last one is ridiculous because I know that this term has been used numerous times throughout the forums!!!!

[gazza]

I've just tried the "Advanced Search" engine you linked me to yesterday and got no results until I tried +flash+drive AND that found the "blinking(?)" thread I was trying to find!!!!! What threw me in my visual scan of the topics was that the word "rescanning" was used and not "remounting" (which was my memory of the thread!)

Not exactly user friendly when simple searches yield no result and some searches still came up with "single" words rather than the requested multi-word.

gazza

[MacDavo]

I've just tried the "Advanced Search" engine you linked me to yesterday and got no results until I tried +flash+drive

Excellent example Gazza because I can see exactly where the problem lies.

To get the +word -word to work, you need to separate the words with spaces. This example will also illustrate the difference between vetted word searches and literal text searches. I'm not trying to teach anybodies grandma how to suck eggs here. So anyone that already knows what I'm about to spell out in great detail, just skim over bits you know as read.

There seems to be a slight glitch in the vetted word search, insomuchas +flash+drive, or +USB+drive ignores the first part of the search. Hence your probable problems. It looks for topics with +drive in them only. Using +flash+drive with no spaces returns about 3 pages of results.

+flash +drive with a space between the two words returns 20 topics, much better. It's showing you topics that have the word drive in them and the word flash in them. Not necessarily together in the same post. The topic Handbrake is a good example. People are talking about DVD drives, and the only reason it matched with this search is because someone talked about a way to flash the firmware on the DVD drive.

The best results come from "flash drive" in quotes. 8 results, and without going through all of them, they should all be about USB flash drives. "USB drive" in quotes, or "USB flash drives" are other variations that would likely pin down one particular topic you were after.

Not exactly user friendly when simple searches yield no result and some searches still came up with "single" words rather than the requested multi-word.

I think with what I've just revealed here, you should find it a lot more friendlier. If more people provide more samples that didn't work in this thread, I can probably troubleshoot them so eventually everyone will be expert thread searchers.

[mickdevlin]

Both of you are giving examples that use three letters (e.g. USB, DVD). Searches for a word containing less than four letters won't work unless the word is part of a quote (e.g. "USB drive").

[MacDavo]

Both of you are giving examples that use three letters (e.g. USB, DVD). Searches for a word containing less than four letters won't work unless the word is part of a quote (e.g. "USB drive").

I was hoping it was clear the terms I was putting inside quotes included the quotes. IE: +flash +drive vs. "flash drive" in the examples and explanations I typed out. I avoided single quotes so as not to confuse the whole thing, but I guess that didn't work

Believe it or not, I've just found a way of searching for three letter terms. You need to use quotes. "mac*" works. IPB returned "Results 0 - 25 of about 1016. Search took 0.2860 seconds." Pretty good and a testament to MySQL which is blindingly fast at returning results if it's indexed well.

I think with more tinkering I can get this baby up to Warp 9. There's a few search variations in the back of my mind I'll test when I get some time.

[mickdevlin]

Believe it or not, I've just found a way of searching for three letter terms. You need to use quotes. "mac*" works. IPB returned "Results 0 - 25 of about 1016. Search took 0.2860 seconds." Pretty good and a testament to MySQL which is blindingly fast at returning results if it's indexed well.

I suspected that was the case, given that it search was conducted in the example I gave, even though the string contained a three letter word.

I think with more tinkering I can get this baby up to Warp 9. There's a few search variations in the back of my mind I'll test when I get some time.

Let's see how fast this thing can go, Scotty!

[gazza]

........I think with what I've just revealed here, you should find it a lot more friendlier. If more people provide more samples that didn't work in this thread, I can probably troubleshoot them so eventually everyone will be expert thread searchers.

Thanks, Davo, "You've dun good!!" I will put your explanation into effect next time I conduct a search and will, from your reassurances, have more success.

The upshot of all this is that the Search aspect of the site does need some simple rules and guidline examples posted for all to see so that searches don't become a very frustrating waste of time.

Thanks, again, Davo

gazza

[gazza]

Both of you are giving examples that use three letters (e.g. USB, DVD). Searches for a word containing less than four letters won't work unless the word is part of a quote (e.g. "USB drive").

True Mick, but if they work in quotes that point needs to be spelt out in the "Search Guidelines/Rules." I don't think it is, from memory, but I stand to be corrected.

gazza

[MacDavo]

Thanks, Davo, "You've dun good!!"

Now that sounds promising. Good enough for a gold star?

Aside from the short word revelation, there's only nitty gritty stuff to report that might well send most to sleep with the thought, "I should of just read the manual!"

So rather than it explain it all, I will simply say, look very carefully at the advanced search. It has some very powerful and useful options.

EG:

• Ability to filter by username
• Ability to set start dates; posts no older than
• Ability to list topics or posts. This is a very worthwhile option so check it out.

Contrary to my first impression, the system does highlight your search terms.

Now there is one trick for getting around the three letter limitation. You want to find all posts with USB something or Mac something. A literal text search (keywords in quotes) will yield much better results, but you can type "mac*" +mini or "USB*" +drive. You have to use the quotes as I have. Also note the spaces.

"USB*" +drive will pick up any topics with USB Flash drive, USB hard drive etc. "USB Drive" in quotes wouldn't, because of the flash and hard. It's quite likely "USB * drive" might get around that problem, but I'm all searched out.

In all of this hacking about, I've found some other cool stuff. I'll reveal all when I get a chance.

[MacDavo]

Let's see how fast this thing can go, Scotty!

I've given 'er all she can take Capt'n. She cannae take any more!

I thought a few php parameters might yield some extra grunt, but not really so. If I could lay my hands on the actual search source, then we'd be talking

I have found some interesting parameters I'll reveal in another post when time permits. I've taken an educated guess * gets replaced with the SQL wild card. If so you could inject * into any part of an expression, and it should match anything in it's place.

[gazza]

Now that sounds promising. Good enough for a gold star?

Definitely a Gold Star, AND an "Elephant Stamp" as well.

gazza

[MacDavo]

Definitely a Gold Star, AND an "Elephant Stamp" as well.

I'm definitely looking forward to those dull empty stars in my profile gleaming with twinkly delight

The Elephant Stamp has me stumped. Does this involve a shortening and/or flattening of one's statue?

[gazza]

............ Does this involve a shortening and/or flattening of one's statue?

Of course Davo, absolutely mandatory!!!

gazza

[MacDavo]

Of course Davo, absolutely mandatory!!!

Actually Elephant stamp is right. The search needs to be rewritten!!!!!

If it sees any text under 3 letters, even in quotes, it won't let you search The wildcards don't even get around the problem

Despite all the tricks I found, when you try to find a topic that requires three letters EG: GPS navigation, you have problems, even in quotes! You're basically reduced to trying to remember unique terms used in the thread.

Having written many PHP search functions for web applications I find this rather sub standard given how good the rest of IP.Board is.

<sigh> consolation star? hehehe. You can't say I don't try

[mickdevlin]

If it sees any text under 3 letters, even in quotes, it won't let you search.

Yes it does (refer screen shot). Although the screen shot shows the search from My Assistant, it also works in the More Options part of the search form. I searched on "App Store" and posters name of MJCP, which returned just one page of topics.

[MacDavo]

Yes it does (refer screen shot).

You might have hit on something here Mick. I was using the standard search form, not the search function from My Assistant. I'll have to do some tinkering to see if there's any difference. From what you've typed, there could be some underlying bugs in the search system that caused the problems I experienced.